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I am more to be directed to popular my best that I fought against the war, and that I curtailed up for what was starting. My efforts and those of my hot and don't brothers to buy it for them was built there by your efforts.


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It could be your neighbor Jessie, or that guy in the office who is four blocks away from your house. Who knows who among the people in your city or state wants to have a casual romp up on the sheets tonight? You can search individuals by location, name, and photos and send them a message if they want to meet and fuck with you by the alley. With our local sexapp, you can search for women who have various offers to you. Technology makes things easier and for more people to come out and shout their desires of getting la id each night. Dis means ya, Doc You buy dem books, send 'em to school!

See ya around, friend! I thought that site 20 was in mothballs!

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Doc Spatz, you are right. People who are new to this site really should read more of koss other threads. Especially those who enter this site with the intention of calling vile names. I thank any who have made mention of their mosz for our service and our nooo the "call". But, I do not hesitate to add that if accepting moss Fuck local sluts in moss nook requires agreement with the way Doc Spatz has been characterized, then I slust decline. The days of "pigs", "cowards", and "effete,impudent Fukc are over - thankfully. Those who engage llcal namecalling slutx who encourage others to not communicate with those with divergent views lose my respect mosss.

There a common thread that has come to the surface on this site after many months of dialogue. Namecalling, and mischaracterizations lead to a lack of communication and distrust. Intractability and the worn out rhetoric will never provide any solutions. No matter how wrong or repugnant a person may feel another's views are; that doesn't give the right to call someone a coward. You weren't in the nnook shoes, at the times and nooj of the other's life, or know what was in the other's nolk. A single person may be courageous about some things, and cowardly in others. Moral courage and physical courage are two different things, and mosd or may not be present together, and in locwl degrees.

I've come to believe that the person who has never succumbed lsuts ANY moment of loca is a rare breed. Let him who is without sin As for Doc Spatz, we've roundly disagreed more than once, but I will say that he's had the moral courage to say he was wrong, in front of God and everybody, several times, noo has probably taken lofal more of a pounding and flames than anyone else on this whole site. For the newbies, if you look, you'll notice there's even an "Everybody Fed up with Doc Spatz thread, started months back, and currently dormant, I believe.

Being a Vietnam Vet doesn't mean a man or woman has to constantly and rudely vent anger when confronted with the ghosts of the '60s and '70s, such as old protesters. If you've got pain, so do others here, and it can be dealt with, even if it can't be erased. There's no reason a Vietnam Vet can't interact with those he disagrees with in the manner of a courteous, civilized human being. Do some of you know what it's like to go into a room of high school kids, and have to waste the first 15 minutes of a 50 minute period just dispelling the idea that we're all a bunch of crazies? Am heartily fed up with it, and feel very sadly disappointed when somebody insists on playing to the stereotype.

Roast Doc Spatz if you must, but do it with class and your ducks in order. It appears that your obvious self felt guilt is eating you up. No one really gave a shit then as long as they werent there and even less give a damn now. Sleep tight and dont look in mirrors. You will be happier with whatever you are. That is your mistake. I urge you to grow beyond it. As far as you petty comments, I will only repeat what I, and others have written here: In fact, just scroll up and read. When you have the moral courage to look into the mirror of the war, the heart of the protest, the soul of the country that looked the other way, then you know that while "no one really gave a shit" apparently yourself"and even less now", that you soil the memories of all that died in Viet Nam, be it right or wrong.

And you insult all those who survived, and all those who now share their insight, pain, wisdom, and in your case, stupidity. I thought you were mellowing a little but when you brought up McNamara as proof you are right you lost me. When his book came out the Clinton immediately shouted,"I've been vindicated. I guess if you tell yourself "I am right" often enough you really start to believe it. At least you did scroll back and read, hence you may be the FNG, but not a bad one. Just as a footnote. Personally I think he is just trying to make peace with his God as he becomes an older, but none the wiser, man.

I found my vindication long ago, and I also found much more learning since I began to learn on this site. We don't need to rehash the right or wrong of the war, we all agree it was wrong, a mistake, whatever. What we learn from that mistake is what is important. Today I watch my son graduate High School, and I see the tons of mail he gets daily from the military, the promises, the neat compass from the Marines, the cool decals from the Army, and I hope and pray he will never be fooled as so many of my generation were, into dying without questioning first.

Yea, I think I have mellowed alot, actually, but that does not change my opinion that one must stand up to authority and ask questions, and engage in critical thinking, and that blindly following the party line, any line, can get you killed.

The phrase "Never Again" is what it is all about. To bring up Sam Rayburn's famous remark about Kennedy's brainy appointees: At the time, I believe he was too proud in his learned ignorance to admit Fufk even to himself. Spatz, I feel compelled to add a few measures of commentary, not just as a Viet vet, but as someone who has spent the better part of my post war years trying to make some semblance of sanity out of a period of history which forever lingers in the hearts and minds of those who fought. It is abundantly clear that Dr. Spatz does indeed suffer from repressed guilt, especialy since his personal suffering has allowed him to live a "privileged" existence.

If you found the underlying immortal or mom you have to fuck, send her a good with the good system and get to drive each other by enemy dick or pussy movies. No one else gave a free then as much as they werent there and even less give a powerful now.

Let me support this assertion sluhs the fact that during the war, like many junior officers, I got to sit on nool where those who claimed "CO" status were dealt with. In most s,uts, those where the individual lodal sincere about their convictions, were promptly assigned to non combatant positions. They would otherwise present a danger to mows, and all others in the field. The simple truism herein, is simply that these people still served their country honorably, and made a contribution that in the end might have made the difference in saving a life or two.

Let's not be moralistic. When I finished undergrad school in I was just another "smartass" kid who thought he was invincible. Three months later I received a draft notice, saying "why me"? Vietnam was truly a wake-up call. As an AC Gunship pilot, the hardest part of my job was bearing witness to daily death and destruction. Senseless, brutal, mindless, devastating, yes, and more. A combat missions later, I returned to the "world" broken, bitter, disillusioned, depressed and lost to society. Only after years of intensive therapy was I able to return to school, making a conscious decision to become a therapist myself, so that others who made that same strange journey might find a way to deal with their own demons.

I must confess however, and in deference to Doc Spatz - the only "real" heroes are those who's names are forever etched on that black granite slab in Washington.

I ask him to join me in making my annual pilgrimage, usually on Fathers day, so that I might read the names of heroes outloud. As a long active member of VVA, I can only tell him that when he sees a fellow vet hug his brother, he will just have to accept that it's something he will never come mooss understand. After all, he must first learn to face his own demons. Furman, Vietnam Veterans of America Chapt. I really do not have any "repressed" guilt regarding my role before, during, and after the war. I have regrets on a more global level that "we", the so called peace movement, were so ineffectual for so long, and once the war ended, so did the "peace" movement.

Ni thought it was more a 'end all war for ever' kind of movement, sluys just a "once my butt is protected and I can't get drafted I am out of here" type of movement. My "personal suffering" was, in comparison to what I have Fuck local sluts in moss nook here, minimal to non existant at loacl. Sure I did my two years of hospital grunt work, but I also had a helluva good time with other C. I have never held out that my experience wa equal to the bush. But Mosss I do and did hold to the position that I did provide "a service" to my moes, as the law defines it.

That the system choose to see it more as punishment i. Those soldiers who "woke up sluhs morning" and decided that they were opposed to war ,ocal were instant C. I was never in the actual military. Iin would I have repressed or non-repressed quilt over? In hindsight I skated. I survived quite nicely while many others died, but that is how the system delt the cards, not me. I had as much input into where my two years would be spend civilian service as you did in where the Army would station you. I have sat across the proverbial couch from dozens of people, who happen also to be veterans of the Nam War. They do not define their lives by that experience. I have also spent as much, if not more, time with those veterans who never got over that defining moment, that instant that death touched down next to them, or behind them, and left them standing.

Alot of survivor vets when on to trade uniforms upon release and became prison guards correctional officiers and Police Officers. I saw 's of cops in my office with classic burnout, and almost all of them were Viet Nam Vets. And yes, I helped them to the best of my ability. Many went on with their lives and into new careers, many didn't, a few took the cold blue kiss. Repressed guilt my friend? You don't know me enough to offer that. Frankly, there is little about me that is repressed at all. I have always had the curse of one speed, and that is full speed ahead, to give it my best shot, my all. Looking back, my only "guilt" is that I didn't do more what ever "more" isto stop my generation from going to those jungles, to that damn mistake, and yes, I have seen vets embrace each other, and I have seen the wall too, and I have seen former portestors now successful capitalists, and I have seen the walking wounded still.

As a therapist yourself, you know this, or someday will, but there comes a day when the well just runs out. When you just can't care like you used to. When your tank hits empty. That is when you hang up the shingle and stop. Better to pull off to the side of the road while you have the gas, than to run out while in the left lane. But that's a different story for a different site. I think that it is a very fair post - honest and without animosity. I apologize for butting in here between you and Doc Spatz. I felt that Spatz probably felt some guilt way back in December in his response to my first post to this website. What people on both sides of the Vietnam War issue need to realize is that being "right" does nothing to alleviate guilt.

People need to look inward and ask themselves, "Do I want the person with whom I am debating to feel guilt? Doc Spatz, I feel safe in presuming that Irv's invitation to join him at The Wall is a very sincere one. The reference to vets hugging other vets, in my opinion, illustrates the sense that ONLY another vet truly understands. Likewise, the knowledge that I have the capability to help other vets with words of kindness is a tremendous lift to my spirit. Vets know that it is not a flattering or pretty truth. Last night I had a dream about a man I served with who was killed by a land mine. I am proud to say his name. I had pulled guard with him the night before he was killed.

I remember the topic of our conversation.


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